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not loza

Suggested change to Rule 10 - Account Sharing

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not loza    4

I am proposing a change to rule 10 regarding account sharing. After discussing with a number of discord members in the suggestions chat I am formally proposing a suggestion to amend the rules around account sharing. Currently account sharing is against game rules, I suggest that that we should amend this to allow players to share there account information with people if they so choose too.

 

Conditions:

  • This will be 100% at the players risk and the staff will not aid in issues regarding hijacked accounts/stolen items when the account details have been shared. 
  • A larger emphasis on rule 11 on multi logging. This will ensure account sharing can't be abused for GIM team gain etc.

 

Reasons for this suggestion are:

  • Allow GIM easier access to shared items if they have not been put into the chest. But obviously if there is a team that does not wish to share items the chest is still a viable option. 
  • This will bring it into align with other popular servers and also OSRS. Even though it isn't condoned on oldschool, its over looked as people often share different accounts for pk builds etc. 

 

Possible issues: 

  • Increased risk of scamming. (this would be combatted by the condition of the player accepting 100% risk if they choose to share account information.) 
  • People may encourage players to start to offer account services such as Inferno. (my opinion on this issue is that if somebody is looking for an account services currently they will get said services no matter the current stand point on the issue. If the changes to rule 10 were implemented we could have a poll whether to allow the services or police them like the current rule 10 is being policed.)

 

Conclusion: Overall I believe that account sharing should be allowed. This is down to the judgement of the player if they want to share the information and accept responsibility for the account and the actions of players who have access to it. 

 

To help gauge how players feel about this proposed change I am going to link two polls. The 1st poll will be whether players would like to change rule 10 and allow account sharing. The 2nd will be whether players would like to allow account services into the game. 

 

Poll 1: https://strawpoll.com/ybou34jyb (account sharing) 

 

Poll 2: https://strawpoll.com/of4ca3f32 (account services)

 

Any feedback, further suggestions or possible issues please leave a response below. 

 

Not Loza

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Voted yes to both, and hope both are allowed in the future. (As long as whatever problems arise are the account owners problems and not staffs')

Edited by Tom Delonge

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not loza    4
2 minutes ago, Tom Delonge said:

Voted yes to both, and hope both are allowed in the future. (As long as whatever problems arise are the account owners problems and not staffs')

Agreed the main thing would be not to increase work load on staff members.

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Malediction    0

I believe account services should be only enabled with the regulation of the staff, like giving ranks to people that are trusted to do that kind of things (like the gamble host rank).

 

The premise of everyone knowing that they can be scammed or hacked is already there so i dont find it changing the whole game nor the economy.
 

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not loza    4
2 minutes ago, Malediction said:

I believe account services should be only enabled with the regulation of the staff, like giving ranks to people that are trusted to do that kind of things (like the gamble host rank).

 

The premise of everyone knowing that they can be scammed or hacked is already there so i dont find it changing the whole game nor the economy.
 

Defiantly. If you give your info to someone you don't 100% trust don't be surprised if you get scammed. Plus there is also a rule to cover scamming in game as well. 

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Pie    3
6 minutes ago, Malediction said:

, like giving ranks to people that are trusted to do that kind of things (like the gamble host rank).

The gamble host rank btw doesn't mean trustworthy though since it can just be bought off store/players. 

 

But on the topic of the poll, yes to both from be cause if your allowing sharing u should allow services just would be way more difficult to moderate if you allow sharing but try to prevent services.

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Malediction    0
Just now, Pie said:

The gamble host rank btw doesn't mean trustworthy though since it can just be bought off store/players. 

 

But on the topic of the poll, yes to both from be cause if your allowing sharing u should allow services just would be way more difficult to moderate if you allow sharing but try to prevent services.

Was using it just for an example, also the services could be moderated through the discord maybe, having a roster of selected people that have permission to do it and submiting applications, idk like if you are paying something on the ge.

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not loza    4
1 minute ago, Pie said:

The gamble host rank btw doesn't mean trustworthy though since it can just be bought off store/players. 

 

But on the topic of the poll, yes to both from be cause if your allowing sharing u should allow services just would be way more difficult to moderate if you allow sharing but try to prevent services.

Yes i can see the difficulty in managing the account services if they would not be allowed. I do not see any issues with services myself especially as items such as the inferno can be gained by most players with early game gear and are not that exclusive among the player base. 

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IronGhost    0

voted yes for both of them, dont want to get banned just for getting my items off my friends account, hope the staff will do something about it.

Edited by IronGhost

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not loza    4
1 hour ago, No Trade said:

voted yes to both this is a stupid rule and should never have been intended into the game, imagine getting banned for sharing your account details

 

28 minutes ago, IronGhost said:

voted yes for both of them, dont want to get banned just for getting my items off my friends account, hope the staff will do something about it.

Thanks for the support! I would like to see what some of the staff members would think about changing these rules as well!

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Purp    1

Yes to both, but to a certain extent for account sharing. It should be disallowed if you have two or more players sharing one account to take advantage of things, an example being a competition hosted by a member of staff. It should also be disallowed if peoples are sharing one account to compete in the hiscore rankings. 

 

Stolen items or account is at own fault if you decide to account share or have someone do a service for you - obviously the account should still be recoverable if you are the original/main owner of the account and have 100% evidence of so. Stolen items should not be refundable. Obviously the hacker/stealer should still serve punishment regardless. 

 

Had a friend who gave me his password many months ago, and I only logged into it last month to borrow some money from it and his account got banned. Dumb af. 

 

Edit: If services become legal, paid services should also be allowed, and services should be added as a sub-section under Marketplace. 

Edited by Purp

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not loza    4
4 minutes ago, Purp said:

Yes to both, but to a certain extent for account sharing. It should be disallowed if you have two or more players sharing one account to take advantage of things, an example being a competition hosted by a member of staff. It should also be disallowed if peoples are sharing one account to compete in the hiscore rankings. 

 

Stolen items or account is at own fault if you decide to account share or have someone do a service for you - obviously the account should still be recoverable if you are the original/main owner of the account and have 100% evidence of so. Stolen items should not be refundable. Obviously the hacker/stealer should still serve punishment regardless. 

 

Had a friend who gave me his password many months ago, and I only logged into it last month to borrow some money from it and his account got banned. Dumb af. 

I support the monitoring of accounts if the staff are running events for prizes that will help maintain competition. This would just be monitored for the period of the event as they having to currently with all the accounts in game to check for account sharing. 

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Flux    96

Implementing such, would cause us to not be able to do anything in case of account hacks, scams, resets, setting up 2fa not by the owner of the account and any harm towards said accounts.

 

What is the account security then?

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not loza    4
28 minutes ago, Flux said:

Implementing such, would cause us to not be able to do anything in case of account hacks, scams, resets, setting up 2fa not by the owner of the account and any harm towards said accounts.

 

What is the account security then?

@Flux So my counter point against these would be as follows:

 

Why should the staff have to deal with people if there account details are compromised in the first place?

 

If a player chooses to allow other player to share their account then they would accept that risk of the account/items being hijacked as they have been distributed. 

 

In the cases of accounts that have been hijacked maliciously the probable cause of this will be down to the account creators failure to secure the account in the first place. If that is from a PC that has been compromised (RATed/keylogged etc). Using compromised emails and passwords which have been affected/compromised by database leaks all of which are prevalent in the RSPS community and have been for years. 

 

In the terms of staff tools available to the team, I don't know if you would be able to track IPs against accounts and be able to distinguish between; A - an account which has had a history of people sharing over a period of time and B - an account which has been accessed by 1 person and then an event of another player accessing the account and harming said account.

 

In terms of player account recovery I believe players can't change their email address through the website (correct me if I am wrong just had a quick look through the security settings). So players if they have registered a valid email address will be able to reset their password via this method. 

 

So overall in conclusion:

  • If we was able to account share: Add a sticky post educating players on better online data security, (I would be happy to help with this)  as this would be the most probable cause of a compromised account. 
  • Players would own the risk of account sharing.
  • Depending on staff tools available I believe IP activity would be able to be used to identify patterns in account activity and distinguish between an account which has been shared and one that has been hacked. 
Edited by not loza

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Izay    48
1 hour ago, not loza said:

@Flux So my counter point against these would be as follows:

 

Why should the staff have to deal with people if there account details are compromised in the first place?

 

If a player chooses to allow other player to share their account then they would accept that risk of the account/items being hijacked as they have been distributed. 

 

In the cases of accounts that have been hijacked maliciously the probable cause of this will be down to the account creators failure to secure the account in the first place. If that is from a PC that has been compromised (RATed/keylogged etc). Using compromised emails and passwords which have been affected/compromised by database leaks all of which are prevalent in the RSPS community and have been for years. 

 

In the terms of staff tools available to the team, I don't know if you would be able to track IPs against accounts and be able to distinguish between; A - an account which has had a history of people sharing over a period of time and B - an account which has been accessed by 1 person and then an event of another player accessing the account and harming said account.

 

In terms of player account recovery I believe players can't change their email address through the website (correct me if I am wrong just had a quick look through the security settings). So players if they have registered a valid email address will be able to reset their password via this method. 

 

So overall in conclusion:

  • If we was able to account share: Add a sticky post educating players on better online data security, (I would be happy to help with this)  as this would be the most probable cause of a compromised account. 
  • Players would own the risk of account sharing.
  • Depending on staff tools available I believe IP activity would be able to be used to identify patterns in account activity and distinguish between an account which has been shared and one that has been hacked. 

I think what Flux means, if there is legit someone being hacked, what stops him from saying "He account shared the details to me on voice chat" ? Legit hackers would never be caught again as this can be used as an grey area every time and it would be A vs B in terms of arguments.

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not loza    4

@Izay Again from my perspective I don't know what account monitoring measures are available to you guys and I don't want you to hint at them or anything. but if accounts are already being monitored for IPs that they log in from.  I fully understand that there will be some grey areas that would arise from the introduction of account sharing. There would be no way to accurately predict the number of malicious use to legitimate use. I believe that the legitimate use would far out way the malicious and have a better effect on the community. Either way its a personal choice to share data as much as its personal choice not to look after your online data. Hackers will still exist whether account sharing is allowed or not.   My example of how to differentiate between the two:

 

Account sharing example:

Day 1: IP 1 - IP 2

Day 2: IP 1 - IP 2

Day 3: IP 1 - IP 2

Day 4: IP 1 - IP 2

Day 5: IP 1 - IP 2

Day 6: IP 1 - IP 2 - Account owner reports to staff that his account/items have been compromised. In this example its clear that the account has been shared and then staff would respond that with the rule change the risk of sharing account details is held with account owner and nothing would be done about it. 

 

Manicous example:

Day 1: IP 1 

Day 2: IP 1 

Day 3: IP 1 

Day 4: IP 1 

Day 5: IP 1

Day 6: IP 1 - IP 2 - Account owner reports to staff that his account/items have been compromised. This would be a clear example of malicious intent.

 

(again this is based on speculation of staff powers to monitor accounts) 

 

Edited by not loza

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Rmtank    4
5 hours ago, Izay said:

I think what Flux means, if there is legit someone being hacked, what stops him from saying "He account shared the details to me on voice chat" ? Legit hackers would never be caught again as this can be used as an grey area every time and it would be A vs B in terms of arguments.

 

You're looking at it in a completely wrong way.

  1. You guys have ip logs (or atleast admin+ might), it takes 10 mins to confirm if the account has been shared before or if its been one person.
  2. If you do see it being shared, then its not your problem, if you dont then clearly something needs to be done.

Ultimately its more work for staff for such a trivial thing, but you can easily just add an exception to the rule, that allows gim to be exempt from this rule, but if they get hacked that's on them. There are more than enough tools available to people in 2020 to protect your shit. That would also solve op's need.

Edited by Rmtank

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not loza    4
6 minutes ago, Rmtank said:

 

You're looking at it in a completely wrong way.

  1. You guys have ip logs (or atleast admin+ might), it takes 10 mins to confirm if the account has been shared before or if its been one person.
  2. If you do see it being shared, then its not your problem, if you dont then clearly something needs to be done.

Ultimately its more work for staff for such a trivial thing, but you can easily just add an exception to the rule, that allows gim to be exempt from this rule, but if they get hacked that's on them. There are more than enough tools available to people in 2020 to protect your shit. That would also solve op's need.

Yeah I agree ultimately this will be used mainly in the GIM community. I can see the pros and cons to restricting account sharing to certain game modes.

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